Have a look at the verses below, and tell me is it possible to receive the Holy Spirit before being baptized, or only after being baptized?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,
Act 10:47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we [have]?"

Thank you.

pabrain.

We receive the Holy Spirit at Salvation, before we/if we get water baptized. We received the Holy Spirit after/when we are Spiritually baptized.

We receive the Holy Spirit at Salvation, before we/if we get water baptized. We received the Holy Spirit after/when we are Spiritually baptized.

Hi emily.

Thank you for your post.

I know that, " We receive the Holy Spirit at Salvation", as is made clear below.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also [trusted], after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

What I am not sure of is just what you mean by, "We received the Holy Spirit after/when we are Spiritually baptized".

Could you please explain just what you mean by, "Spiritually baptized", and let me have Scripture verses in support of this.

Thank you.

Edwin.

Being spiritually baptized is just another term for being saved or born-again.

I believe you receive the Holy Spirit upon salvation.

Ms cheerio,

Yes, the new birth is spiritual. Paul says in Romans 8: "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Take care.

I believe you receive the Holy Spirit upon salvation.

We receive the Holy Spirit when we are saved. Water baptism is a command to follow after we have received the Holy Spirit.

Many traditional denominations hold to the idea that we receive the Holy Spirit upon being baptized. They believe that faith in God and Christ Jesus is a work of the Holy Spirit (not of us). They believe that the Holy Spirit is the one responsible for bringing us to trust in Christ, delivering to us all the treasures of His great salvation for us, and for keeping us in the faith. So all who repent and are baptized receive the Holy Spirit.

In simple terms, it means we cannot come to faith in Christ without the Spirit's conviction, yet without repentence and baptism, the Holy spirit cannot work in someone's heart. That's why the traditional denominations baptize infants (although they do not restrict baptism to infants alone, but offer it to anyone of any age).

Kind of makes the Great Commission seem a little more urgent. It's important to spread the Gospel and not leave out God's Law. God's Law, as given to people in the Old Testament, is a mirror that reflects our sin. (Paul reiterates this in the book of Romans.) When we realize we are sinners, we can then repent and be baptized. At that time, the Holy Spirit enters our hearts and leads us to faith in Christ.

At least that's how I interpret this.

FWIW,

Ms C:

Paul to the Corinthians said:

"By one Spirit have we all been baptised into one body".

This is by the Spirit, not water baptism. Water baptism is an important symbol, but it does not confer the Holy Spirit, Who comes to indwell at conversion, not water baptism.

Many traditional denominations hold to the idea that we receive the Holy Spirit upon being baptized. They believe that faith in God and Christ Jesus is a work of the Holy Spirit (not of us). They believe that the Holy Spirit is the one responsible for bringing us to trust in Christ, delivering to us all the treasures of His great salvation for us, and for keeping us in the faith. So all who repent and are baptized receive the Holy Spirit.

In simple terms, it means we cannot come to faith in Christ without the Spirit's conviction, yet without repentence and baptism, the Holy spirit cannot work in someone's heart. That's why the traditional denominations baptize infants (although they do not restrict baptism to infants alone, but offer it to anyone of any age).

Kind of makes the Great Commission seem a little more urgent. It's important to spread the Gospel and not leave out God's Law. God's Law, as given to people in the Old Testament, is a mirror that reflects our sin. (Paul reiterates this in the book of Romans.) When we realize we are sinners, we can then repent and be baptized. At that time, the Holy Spirit enters our hearts and leads us to faith in Christ.

At least that's how I interpret this.

FWIW,

Did the thief on the cross receive the holy spirit, or go to heaven without the HS? Just thought I'd and a twist to this. RB

Did the thief on the cross receive the holy spirit, or go to heaven without the HS? Just thought I'd and a twist to this. RB

Could it be that the Holy Spirit caused the thief to say what he did?

Could it be that the Holy Spirit caused the thief to say what he did?

Certainly! RB

Well, Philippians 2 says that it is God that works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

It appears that the Holy Spirit was active in the world before Christ. In Acts 1:16, we read that Scripture must be fulfilled "which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David . . . " The Spirit also came upon Elizabeth while she was carrying John in the womb.

And Simeon, a righteous man upon whom the Holy Spirit came, was promised he would not die before he had seen the Messiah.

Yet Peter, in Acts 2, verse 38 says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

1. Repent
2. Be baptized
3. And you will receive the Holy Spirit.

I suppose, being part of the Triune nature of God, the Holy Spirit can do what He wants! :halo:

Ms C:

But as you know, the thief on the Cross wasn't baptised, yet he had the promise of being with the Lord Jesus that day in paradise, because of his faith. Water didn't do it, water would not have done it, water is symbolic.

It appears that the Holy Spirit was active in the world before Christ. In Acts 1:16, we read that Scripture must be fulfilled "which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David . . . " The Spirit also came upon Elizabeth while she was carrying John in the womb.

And Simeon, a righteous man upon whom the Holy Spirit came, was promised he would not die before he had seen the Messiah.

Yet Peter, in Acts 2, verse 38 says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

1. Repent
2. Be baptized
3. And you will receive the Holy Spirit.

I suppose, being part of the Triune nature of God, the Holy Spirit can do what He wants! :halo:

Ms C:

But as you know, the thief on the Cross wasn't baptised, yet he had the promise of being with the Lord Jesus that day in paradise, because of his faith. Water didn't do it, water would not have done it, water is symbolic.

As I pointed out, neither David, nor Elizabeth, nor Simeon had been baptized. Yet, the Spirit came upon them. However, with the establishment of the new covenant in Christ, the command was to repent, believe, and be baptized, and then receive the Spirit.

Again, as I said, God can do whatever He wills, and can send the Spirit to whomever He chooses whenever He wishes.

Some denominations feel baptism is symbolic. Some feel it is required. God knows the heart, and that's what counts.

Ms C:

Yes, it's the heart that counts; the inward and spiritual over the outward and physical.

At the same time, it's good and important for teaching to reflect what the Bible actually says.
As I pointed out, neither David, nor Elizabeth, nor Simeon had been baptized. Yet, the Spirit came upon them. However, with the establishment of the new covenant in Christ, the command was to repent, believe, and be baptized, and then receive the Spirit.

Again, as I said, God can do whatever He wills, and can send the Spirit to whomever He chooses whenever He wishes.

Some denominations feel baptism is symbolic. Some feel it is required. God knows the heart, and that's what counts.

Ms C:

At the same time, it's good and important for teaching to reflect what the Bible actually says.

I gave you Scripture.

"Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23.43

"He that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16.16 (No mention of baptism)



I gave you Scripture.

As I pointed out, neither David, nor Elizabeth, nor Simeon had been baptized. Yet, the Spirit came upon them. However, with the establishment of the new covenant in Christ, the command was to repent, believe, and be baptized, and then receive the Spirit.



One must remember that Christ died before the thief. RB

One must remember that Christ died before the thief. RB

I don't quite see how this applies to my post you quoted.

Earlier I cited Scripture as follows: Peter, in Acts 2, verse 38 says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

1. Repent
2. Be baptized
3. And you will receive the Holy Spirit.

As I also pointed out, Scripture says the Spirit spoke through the mouth of King David (before Christ was even born, and before baptism was instituted); the Spirit came upon Elizabeth before baptism was instituted.

I believe the original question was when does one receive the Holy Spirit?

Prior to Christ's life, death and resurrection, God sent His spirit into the world to convict people (whether it was a king, a prophet, a priest, or the mother of John the Baptist) and move them to action and/or understanding and fear of the Lord.

After Christ's ascension, followers of Christ were instructed by His disciples to ""Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Christ's life, death, resurrection, and ascension altered God's covenant with his people.

FWIW,

Baptism is symblic; otherwise, operating water baptism would be a rite of merit, and salvation is 'not of works', (Ephesians 2.9).

I don't quite see how this applies to my post you quoted.

Earlier I cited Scripture as follows: Peter, in Acts 2, verse 38 says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

1. Repent
2. Be baptized
3. And you will receive the Holy Spirit.

As I also pointed out, Scripture says the Spirit spoke through the mouth of King David (before Christ was even born, and before baptism was instituted); the Spirit came upon Elizabeth before baptism was instituted.

I believe the original question was when does one receive the Holy Spirit?

Prior to Christ's life, death and resurrection, God sent His spirit into the world to convict people (whether it was a king, a prophet, a priest, or the mother of John the Baptist) and move them to action and/or understanding and fear of the Lord.

After Christ's ascension, followers of Christ were instructed by His disciples to ""Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Christ's life, death, resurrection, and ascension altered God's covenant with his people.

FWIW,

I have a Pastor/Friend who believes that the thief died under the old law and that's why he didn't need to be Baptized. This Pastor/Friend believes you MUST be baptized to go to heaven. It's splitting hairs but I disagree with him. Jesus died before the thief and that's why I think the thief died under grace, not the old law. I think Baptism is essential but not required to go to heaven. RB

Baptism is symblic; otherwise, operating water baptism would be a rite of merit, and salvation is 'not of works', (Ephesians 2.9).

Baptism does not grant salvation. Faith in Christ, by grace alone, is a gift from God, and this is what saves. Just saying we believe in Christ as Lord and Savior does not grant us the Holy Spirit, however. As believers, we obey the Lord and are baptized as an act of obedience to God, and thus receive the Spirit.

That's what I was attempting to explain. Remember the question: Before or after.

C:

Well, with respect, that is not what I believe to be Scriptural.

At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit did not come from the waters of baptism.

The Spirit did not start to indwell me when I was baptised with water as a symbol.

He graciously came to indwell when I was born again (John 3): I was born again spiritually, I was born again by the operation of the Holy Spirit, not of water.

Without the Holy Spirit indwelling, I cannot claim to be Christ's: "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8.9)

.. baptized as an act of obedience to God, and thus receive the Spirit.

That's what I was attempting to explain. Remember the question: Before or after.

C:

Well, with respect, that is not what I believe to be Scriptural.

At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit did not come from the waters of baptism.

The Spirit did not start to indwell me when I was baptised with water as a symbol.

He graciously came to indwell when I was born again (John 3): I was born again spiritually, I was born again by the operation of the Holy Spirit, not of water.

Without the Holy Spirit indwelling, I cannot claim to be Christ's: "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8.9)

Just to clarify
Salvation from sin by excepting Christ's death on the cross= Indwelling of the Holy Spirit
Baptism by water= Outward expression of an inward dwelling of the Holy Spirit
Just want to know were on the same page here
RB

Have a look at the verses below, and tell me is it possible to receive the Holy Spirit before being baptized, or only after being baptized?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



pabrain.

Do you think that you need to Repent, and be baptized for remission of sins? If this is the case the thief on the cross went to hell. If this verse is written in chronological order then It's Repentance+ Baptism in Jesus Christ's name= remission & Gift of HS. This just don't jive with the rest of the Bible. I think he's saying Repentance gives you spiritual Baptism, remission of sin, and the HS all in one! I believe that if it were talking about water baptism it would have said in the name of the Father, Son, and HS, but I would need to do a very in depth study to verify my initial thought on this. I guess the question really is what is "Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" Is it water Baptism or is it part of Repentance? This is an excellent question! You wont get every Christian to agree on this one. RB

It sounds to me like we're basically all on the same page here. Just misunderstanding the wording, or something like that.

Farouk, I still don't quite understand your position on when we receive the Spirit. Am I understanding that you don't believe baptism is relevant at all, despite our Lord having himself been baptised, and in spite of Acts 2:38??

On another thread (I think) there was talk of baptism being "in the name of three, or of one." I pointed out that in the great commission, Jesus instructed his disciples to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, Jesus, himself, tells us to be baptized, and baptize others as well!

The thief on the cross did repent. He pointed out to the other thief that they were deserving of their punishment; and then later asked Christ to remember him.

I don't think we need to have it spelled out word-for-word in Scripture to understand that the thief on the cross was repentant. Only after recognizing and acknowledging his wrongdoings did he ask Christ to remember him. No, he wasn't baptized, but as I said, baptism does not equal salvation! I never said one had to be baptized to be saved.

I see baptism as obedience to God. Even Jesus was baptized. Not because he had sinned; not because he needed it; but in obedience to the Father. That is why we, too, are baptized.

At the time of the Lord's baptism, the Holy Spirit descended upon him in the form of a dove (this is in all four Gospels), and the voice from heaven spoke . . . Afterwards, the Gospels tell us Jesus "was led by the Spirit" into the wilderness, where he was tempted. After that he began his ministry.

Personally, I see Jesus' example as ours. When we believe, we are baptized, receive the Spirit, and begin our own ministry, in whatever way we are called and led.

I respect your interpretations, in as much as they differ, but I do not think a person just has to say "I accept Christ" and suddenly he or she is spirit-filled. Anyone can say that. It is the truly repentant heart that, in obedience to God, acknowledges his sin and turns from it, in whose life the Spirit will go to work.

Nobody has offered an explanation of Acts 2:38, however. I don't know the Greek, but why would Peter have phrased it that way? Are you saying he didn't mean it, or that he was confused?

If you don't think baptism is important in the Christian life, why would you even be baptized at all?

Being born-again is spiritual in nature. Baptism is an act (yes, you could say it is symbolic) of obedience to God. We are to be like Christ.

Nobody has offered an explanation of Acts 2:38, however. I don't know the Greek, but why would Peter have phrased it that way? Are you saying he didn't mean it, or that he was confused?

If you don't think baptism is important in the Christian life, why would you even be baptized at all?

Being born-again is spiritual in nature. Baptism is an act (yes, you could say it is symbolic) of obedience to God. We are to be like Christ.

My understanding of Acts 2:38 is that yes, we are commanded to be baptized, but that is not necessary for receiving the Holy Spirit. Peter was just phrasing it how he thought it should be (if everyone was obedient to the command). Now, I could be wrong, but that is how I understand it at this time.

I agree that baptism is important in the Christian life, I just don't think it is necessary. Being baptized is an act of obedience; therefore, it is important. Now to the fact of is it necessary, I don't think so. I know of people who did great things for God's kingdom and they were never baptized (expect maybe sprinkled as a baby). I could see the Holy Spirit leading them in all they did.

You are right that baptism is an act of obedience and that we are to be like Christ, but we can never fully be like Christ. Some may choose to be disobedient in this aspect, while others will be disobedient in other ways (lying, adultery, etc.). I can't see that the Holy Spirit would be dependent on our "works".

My understanding of Acts 2:38 is that yes, we are commanded to be baptized,

I can't see that the Holy Spirit would be dependent on our "works".

Neither can I. I didn't say that. I said that Jesus is to be the example for our lives.

In none of my posts on this thread have I suggested that being baptized leads to salvation. Neither do I equate baptism with "works." If you want to go that route, then "accepting Christ" is a personal work, as well! That is something you "do." I doubt anyone here looks at it that way, so why would you equate baptism with works?

I guess I'm not good at explaining my position. I said we are to be baptized because Jesus was; because He commanded it in the Great Commission; because of Peter's words in Acts 2:38.

I also said that, just as the Holy Spirit descended upon our Lord at his baptism, so to does the Spirit enter and direct our lives when we receive baptism.

Just clarifying.

In none of my posts on this thread have I suggested that being baptized leads to salvation. Neither do I equate baptism with "works." If you want to go that route, then "accepting Christ" is a personal work, as well! That is something you "do." I doubt anyone here looks at it that way, so why would you equate baptism with works?


I also said that, just as the Holy Spirit descended upon our Lord at his baptism, so to does the Spirit enter and direct our lives when we receive baptism.



If you look, that isn't what I said either! You say that we don't receive the Holy Spirit until we are baptized ("the Spirit enter and direct our lives when we receive baptism"). I don't think the reception of the Holy Spirit is depended on works (act of obedience--following the Lord's example in baptism). Works is something "we" do (i.e. obediently following in baptism). The Holy Spirit is a "gift" given to us because we accepted Christ as our salvation.

I guess I haven't been very good in explaining my view either.

If you look, that isn't what I said either! You say that we don't receive the Holy Spirit until we are baptized ("the Spirit enter and direct our lives when we receive baptism"). I don't think the reception of the Holy Spirit is depended on works (act of obedience--following the Lord's example in baptism). Works is something "we" do (i.e. obediently following in baptism). The Holy Spirit is a "gift" given to us because we accepted Christ as our salvation.

I guess I haven't been very good in explaining my view either.

I don't think baptism is a "work". When a Christian speaks of "works," what (s)he means is doing something to earn salvation. Baptism does not earn a person salvation.

Accepting Christ, to most evangelicals (I think) means inviting Christ into your heart. That is a conscious act, isn't it? You can ask Christ to be your personal savior, or not ask. So that, too, then, is a "work." (I'm just trying to follow through with your logic here.) Even if you call it "accepting Christ as our Salvation," you are still making a conscious decision, so it is YOUR will, not God's.

I believe salvation through faith is a gift from God. How does a person come to believe in the first place? Through faith. Where does that faith come from? From God.

Obedience to God's commands isn't "works," IMO. We obey God because we love and trust in Him, not because we want to gain or earn something. It is the natural result of our gratitude for what He has done for us, through His son, Jesus.

The term "works," as it applies Biblically, means doing something to earn salvation. We do not get baptized to earn salvation, but rather in response to God's command.

I think maybe we need to identify who the Holy Spirit is and what His role is. I don't think there's any question as to how He works in our lives. Maybe we wonder how to know if He lives in us? I think His gifts are manifested in many, many ways, and I do NOT believe you only have the spirit if you speak in tongues (not to open a whole 'nother can of worms . . . :D). He, however, is given to us when we become members of the family of God. Just when that is is NOT up to us, but rather up to God, since it is He who sends His spirit.

Traditional theology holds, as I said, to the gift of the Spirit descending upon us after baptism, as in the case of Christ Himself. That's what I was trying to point out, in answer to the original question.

I think it's OK to disagree on this point, since, as believers, we all have the Holy Spirit in our hearts. I don't care when He got there, only that He is there, guiding my life, helping me to care for others.

Just my 2 cents, FWIW :shrug:

Traditional theology holds, as I said, to the gift of the Spirit descending upon us after baptism, as in the case of Christ Himself. That's what I was trying to point out, in answer to the original question.

Just my 2 cents, FWIW :shrug:

WOW am I slow! I get what your trying to say with this whole thread now. I'm going to have to get on my knees and ask Jesus to reveal this one to me because I never gave it a second thought that Christ's Baptism should be an actual example of Salvation, Baptism, receiving of the HS. Especially being that they are all one. Just a thought, how can you please the Father and receive the HS when you are them? This is a deep one. RB

Just a thought, how can you please the Father and receive the HS when you are them? This is a deep one. RB

As the king in the musical King and I would say, "'Tis a puzzlement!"

I have pondered this one myself. Jesus prays to the Father; he speaks over and over again of doing the Father's will; he sends the Counselor (Holy Spirit) to his disciples . . . all this and more, yet he and the Father (and the Spirit) are one!!

I guess it is just one of those mysteries we accept on faith, which will all be revealed to us one day.

What has been said above put me in mind of,

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, [fn] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared [Him].

Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Jhn 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

Jhn 14:7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
Jhn 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
Jhn 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority]; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
Jhn 14:11 Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

My understanding is that when Jesus said, "he who has seen me has seen the Father", He was not referring to psychical appearance, but conduct and behavior, in other words.

What you have seen me doing, and heard me saying, was not in fact me, but my Father who dwells within me doing His works, my body has enabled my Father to become articulate, but only as a result of my continually adopting towards my Father God an attitude of, "not my will but thine be done".

And that is the only way in which we can do God's will.

Blessings.

Edwin.